Painted another 70 figures for the ECW project this last week, 2 more pike heavy foot regiments and 2 more of horse. They are each of 8 figures but all based in two's so that I can make smaller or larger units as required. Forlorn Hope uses a ratio of 1 figure represents 33 men so roughly between 2 and 3 figures represents a troop. Between the numerous cavalry packs there is plenty of variation in equipment which makes for nice units, but I have tried to keep the majority in buff coats, pot helmets and back/breast armour for that 'Popham Horse' look (below). A few soft hats and coats mixed in give a good overall ECW look I think.
This weeks output, all just need a good brush over to remove that static grass before they go in the box.
I have now decided to use two flags for each regiment of foot on the command bases. Having experimented with drilling out and adding slightly longer shafts to allow for larger flags I'm going to stick with the 14mm one's I have used so far simply because it's a lot of extra fiddly work and time that could be spent painting, and to be honest at 14mm they are very close to historical size. Ordering 'special packs' is quite straightforward at PP so I have a pack of each of the two command pack standard bearers coming, 8 of each. They cost a £1 more for a special pack at £4.50 but as the rest of command castings go back in the pot as it were, well worth it. I'll also do a few head swaps to add some helmeted figures.
By the weekend I should have a total of 350 painted figures towards the project upon the completion of the 4th 'pike heavy' unit. That's sufficient for two 10 unit armies to get started with, each of 5 foot, 3 horse, a dragoon and an artillery unit plus the general. That leads me onto a rules dilemma that I have been thinking about.
An extra half inch makes all the difference!
OK, so from the start I had in mind a return to Forlorn Hope. I still like them BUT the 'Foy' variant of Commands & Colors for the ECW continues to draw me to it, so best solution would be to be able to use my figures with both. I am so familiar with the C&C system and this variant because I followed it long from the early stages of development and even got to offer a few suggestions at the start and they really reflect the period very well. Above all the set of period themed command cards that Tony created for this are a joy, if you have not seen them it's well worth a look on the link on Tony's blog (HERE). In addition the introduction of the wonderful Hazzard a Chaunce cards added a new level of random events, again period specific and humorous such as 'Exceeding Nervose', 'O Bugger it', 'I shall never touch the stuff again' and 'Thumblethumbs' which requires a dice roll for a powder accident!
The problem is that the game obviously needs to be played on a hex grid and my lovely printed mat only has 125mm hexes (across the flats) and my unit frontages are 120mm which is a bit too tight when deployed side by side. It's a shame as I had spent hours making hills from MDF and foamboard topped with printed card shot from the mat to match, and then road and river sections specially cut to fit the grid. The mat is printed on a 6x4 cloth which leaves a nice black border on all sides. 6x4 is the largest size that I can comfortably fit on the dining table when covered with my three plywood boards which alone cost me £36, so you begin to see my dilemma? I had considered settling for a grid of 8 x 12 6" hexes marked up on the boards, which would still require new hills etc to be made and represents a bit of a compromise as the game is designed for a 13 x 9 grid. On discussing this with Tony he came back with a solution as to how I cold fit the full 13 x9 grid within my 6x4 table, simply use 140mm (5.5") hexes. Well of course it's the answer, but would involve a great deal of work and possibly a new printed mat. The only other thing I can come up with would be to reduce my unit frontages by 10mm or so fit the existing set up, again more work but doable. That's it my head hurts now, I shall invite comments on this matter, which would you do in this situation?
1. Play on the 125mm hex grid, bit tight when units side by side?
2. Compromise on an 8 x 12 grid of 150mm hexes?
3, Start again with a 140mm (5.5") hex grid
4. Reduce unit frontages slightly?
5. Bugger the lot and just play Forlorn Hope?
I’m totally biased on this matter having played Tony’s rules almost exclusively for this period and consider them great fun. Though I’ve tried just about every commercially available game system for the period the only other set that came close were To The Strongest - though I’ve a thing about squares for some reason. Tony’s Ramekin replacement for the C&C cards works very well but I’ve recently played a couple of games using an activation system I nicked from Bob Cordrey. On more than one occasion I have played Tony’s C&C ECW variant on an 8x12 hexon layout with no detrimental effect on game play, so don’t get too wound up by official C&C board sizes. Forlorn Hope, meh.
ReplyDeleteCheers JBM. I have solved the problem as the upcoming video will illustrate hopefully (it's not that I like the sound of my own voice but it saves me loads of typing!). I'm seriously thinking abut the FK&P rules as the grid is less obvious. But how do you represent hills in a square grid?
DeleteWell …… because I am indecisive, I need good old option 6 ….. ‘or all of the above’ :-)
ReplyDeleteSeriously, from your post, I would say that your inclination is towards the grid game, so I would go with that as it is most likely to maintain enthusiasm and get games to the table, especially on those days when you might need a nudge to get something played.
Secondly, since you already have the 125mm hex grid and a nice cloth, I would stick with that, especially as it gets you a few more hexes on the table, which matters. But my reasoning is more than mere convenience to time and cost. My own hexes are 100mm and I find them OK for troops, but too tight for both troops and terrain at the same time, BUT, it is still a workable solution for me and it does give me more hexes.
So, from my seat, 125mm is quite roomy and I think 120mm units will actually look fine in them. (I use 80mm and am increasing to 90mm widths for the 100mm hex). In any case, if it looks and feels wrong, you can always change hex size at a later time, it won’t cost any more than if you were to change now, but I would be inclined to explore current kit first.
Also ….. I would do a 10 unit per side game on hexes and then run exactly the same game on an open table with Forlorn Hope rules and see if one is particularly more to your tastes than the other (we are back again to ‘all of the above’ !) :-)
The new units are lovely additions.
Thank you Norm, as always very sound and sensible advice :) You are correct, the 120mm units really do not look too bad in 125mm hexes, had to see it for myself before I could accept it.
DeleteI only ever played FH against opponents including two a sides and I'm not convinced they will work for solo games now. I do like a more randomised activation system.
Many thanks for your input,
Lee.
I would find a way to play with your existing mat/terrain set up - either change the unit sizes or just squeeze them in somehow!
ReplyDeleteThanks Ian, tried it and they don't look too bad...phew!
DeleteImpressive painting as ever - I can't recall if I sent you a copy of my mash-up of VWQ with Foy's C&C for ECW. Let me know and I'll send you a copy if I didn't. My painting currently going on hold while the house is turned upide down for the builders.
ReplyDeleteCheers Rob, I think I do have them somewhere, I'll have to look them up again.
DeleteLee,
ReplyDeleteFirst lovely figures, as always. Use the grid you have it will be fine I wouldn’t even contemplate on compromises or starting again especially as you’re still not 100% decided on rules .
Hi Graham. I want them to work with different rule sets anyway and in fact they fit the existing grid which is a relief.
DeleteLee - I confess that because of an age-old strategic cock-up in my unit widths department, I field my units with the pikes behind the muskets if they are short of space. It used to bother me, but it's OK now - I've developed a blind spot! I use 3 stands per unit - I was trying to work out your basing in the foot units from the photos (and they are lovely, btw) - if that's 4 bases per unit, put the pike stands in tandem when you need extra space. There are a few rulesets which use "pikes advanced" or "muskets advanced" as valid formations anyway - I think it will work OK. If your units are narrower then the hex width, a lot of the time you have enough space. If the terrain or the neighbouring units limit the space on occasions, squeeze the pikes a bit, or shove them behind. It makes no odds for C&C anyway!
ReplyDeleteYou know me Tony, I think I have OCD tendencies when it comes to model soldiers! Actually they do just about fit the existing set up having tried it out so I can put all that to the back of my mind and get on with the painting. The idea of simply placing the muskets slightly in advance did occur to me but I think I have got away with it as is.
DeleteSounds like its solved but I would have recommended playing a few games as is before taking any drastic action.
ReplyDelete(based on personal experience with the "do the work now then test then repeat" approach.)
In any event, its going to look great!
Hi Ross, I think that I want a more subtle hex grid as the heavy black printed lines really detract, but I'm getting there slowly now :)
DeleteI agree with Norm (as I usually do as he is a sensible chap!) Try and make it work, rather than as Ross and I have done,needlessly change things and go back to square one!
ReplyDeleteBest Iain
I think I know where I'm going now Iain! I must try not to overthink it all or I give up and sell everything :) only joking, I'm keeping these as I feel bereft without having a few of my own figures about the place.
DeleteMy word Lee, I have seen some impressive looking wargames rooms, but yours in those top photos looks *sensational*!! If only, hey... :)
ReplyDeleteSpeaking of sensational, those units certainly are. Gorgeous to look at.
All the best, James
(I don't think that I can add anything meaningful to the discussion of your dilemma).
As always I value your input James :) The room in Littlecoat House, Hungerford was a beauty but I understand that it is now a hotel and the entire collection of arms and armour were sold but luckily bought by the Royal Armouries. Such as a shame as it was like stepping back in time.
ReplyDelete